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CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: Robert Hartigan on January 16, 2007, 12:03:54 PM

Title: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Robert Hartigan on January 16, 2007, 12:03:54 PM I just started down the path of professional military education and wondered if there was anyone else out there doing the same? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 16, 2007, 12:10:25 PM Just finished International Studies section, waiting for my test results. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: AlphaSigOU on January 16, 2007, 12:15:45 PM Gotta wait until I pin on Captain this July to enroll. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: TankerT on January 16, 2007, 12:35:18 PM I finished this course a bit ago. Big pain. Not that it's a poor course. But, not much of the overall program applies to general leadership theory or what we do in CAP. I can see how it is an essential program for the Air Force. It also gives a good insight into how their officer's are trained to think... and why. Anyone that has a graduate level degree will not find the material overly challenging. (Don't confuse that for not being challenging at all...) It is more time consuming than anything due to the amount of reading required. (And rereading to catch the concepts.) Personally, if I had to do it over again, I'd take the vacation time and do Region Staff College. It would have been less time away from family (while I was hiding studying) and whatnot. (Plus at RSC, you get to meet/network with other CAP folks...) Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: CAPLAW on January 16, 2007, 02:04:04 PM I am a Captain and wish to enroll in SOS. How do I enroll? Thanks Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: TankerT on January 16, 2007, 02:15:24 PM If you check out the CAP Knowledgebase, answer # 506 has the information you want. (It is lenghty, so best to check it out there...) Also, don't hesitate to contact your Wing PD Officer. He/she should be very familiar with

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the process. Good luck! Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 16, 2007, 02:25:31 PM

Quote from: TankerT on January 16, 2007, 02:15:24 PM If you check out the CAP Knowledgebase, answer # 506 has the information you want. (It is lenghty, so best to check it out there...) Also, don't hesitate to contact your Wing PD Officer. He/she should be very familiar with the process. Good luck!

Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Robert Hartigan on January 16, 2007, 10:22:31 PM The only hiccup that I ran into was that I had to download the AF form writer software so I could fill out the application online. Once that was done it was a breeze. National needs to confirm that you are a current member so after the AF accepts your application and says you are a student that is not 100% until National vouches for you. A few emails later and I was setup watching the briefing and on my way. Come on in the water is fine... Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: afgeo4 on January 16, 2007, 11:54:35 PM What's the time commitment vs. AFIADL 0013 course? How long do you have to study and how many exams are there? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 17, 2007, 05:58:46 AM

Quote from: arajca on January 16, 2007, 02:25:31 PM Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up.

Assuming you had one you'd seen or spoken to even once since transfering to the Sq in Aug even though they report to you. I just got signed up & hadn't touched a thing yet. Actually, I did the AF form & have yet to log in. Can you post what you needed to do w/ NHQ to square it up?

Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: A.Member on January 17, 2007, 09:17:48 AM "...they torture you with briefings 'til your will to live is gone. They take 5 weeks of your short life and flush it down the john... ...between this and death by bunga-bunga, you'll surely chose death... ...S...O...S...is calling for you!" ;) :) Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now?

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Post by: AlphaSigOU on January 17, 2007, 10:05:21 AM

Quote from: A.Member on January 17, 2007, 09:17:48 AM "...they torture you with briefings 'til your will to live is gone. They take 5 weeks of your short life and flush it down the john... ...between this and death by bunga-bunga, you'll surely chose death... ...S...O...S...is calling for you!" ;) :)

Yay for Snooze and Trip! (Dos Gringos, that is.) Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 18, 2007, 07:41:15 PM

Quote from: DNall on January 17, 2007, 05:58:46 AM Quote from: arajca on January 16, 2007, 02:25:31 PM Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up. Assuming you had one you'd seen or spoken to even once since transfering to the Sq in Aug even though they report to you. I just got signed up & hadn't touched a thing yet. Actually, I did the AF form & have yet to log in. Can you post what you needed to do w/ NHQ to square it up?

National has nothing to do with it. It's all done through AFIADL. After emailing the form, you'll need to register for the AU Distributed Learning System (https://au.csd.disa.mil/kc/login/login.asp?kc_ident=kc0012). Go to the Support Desk and submit an incident explaining that you're with CAP and need access for SOS. They'll set you up and send you the instructions to login. For the SOS-DLP FAQ's, go here. (http://soc.maxwell.af.mil/sos/socadl/index.htm=) Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 18, 2007, 07:42:07 PM Got my results back for International Studies - Passed. 77%. Not as good as I thought I'd do, but I'll take it. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Robert Hartigan on January 18, 2007, 11:21:10 PM Congrats! 77% is respectable. Two more test and you are done, right? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 18, 2007, 11:41:53 PM Yep. Starting Communication Studies tomorrow, should be easier considering I just finished English Comp and Speech at my community college. At least until I get to the AF specific documents. I'm getting psych'd for a bunch of quizes - just about every reading assignment has a quiz, like 15 in all, instead of two or three for the entire course. Then comes Leadership Studies. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: TankerT on January 19, 2007, 06:50:17 PM

Quote from: afgeo4 on January 16, 2007, 11:54:35 PM What's the time commitment vs. AFIADL 0013 course? How long do you have to study and how many exams are there?

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I'd say hands down, there is no comparison. SOS contains more difficult material. AFIADL 13 has the one exam. SOS has four. I took the paper based SOS. (I tried the CD based one. It was soooo boring. And, I couldn't sit down and study at lunch while at work... so... it didn't work out... so I changed.) I spent several hours a week on the course. (I don't recall how many. Sometimes quite a few. Mainly going over the materials and making flash cards.) I took 14 months. I probably could have done it in a year... but... I still needed time to actually do CAP stuff... as well as spend time with my family. (But, when it comes to this type of material, which is lots of small essays and case studies, I tend to overstudy when a multiple guess test is involved. I hate multiple guess.... I would have been done months faster if it was essay...) Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: MIKE on January 19, 2007, 06:59:15 PM Multiple guess. :D Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Robert Hartigan on January 19, 2007, 11:07:49 PM SOS 28 is now broken up into five areas so there are five test now. The entire course is online via web briefings and reading assignments. My experience so far is that it is a comprehensive analysis of the basic building blocks of professional military officership and the USAF in particular. Very interesting material and I can see how the material on the surface may seem irrelevant to CAP but I am sure that the material will be a benefit to me in my professional life and CAP volunteerism. The added benefit of college credit is also appealing since it is free. I recommend it to those with the self discipline and the ability to make the time for the studies. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 20, 2007, 02:28:38 AM

Quote from: arajca on January 18, 2007, 07:41:15 PM Quote from: DNall on January 17, 2007, 05:58:46 AM Quote from: arajca on January 16, 2007, 02:25:31 PM Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up. Assuming you had one you'd seen or spoken to even once since transfering to the Sq in Aug even though they report to you. I just got signed up & hadn't touched a thing yet. Actually, I did the AF form & have yet to log in. Can you post what you needed to do w/ NHQ to square it up? National has nothing to do with it. It's all done through AFIADL. After emailing the form, you'll need to register for the AU Distributed Learning System (https://au.csd.disa.mil/kc/login/login.asp?kc_ident=kc0012). Go to the Support Desk and submit an incident explaining that you're with CAP and need access for SOS. They'll set you up and send you the instructions to login. For the SOS-DLP FAQ's, go [urlhttp://soc.maxwell.af.mil/sos/socadl/index.htm=]here.[/url]

Did that, initial reply didn't give me login info, but got it cleared up. Thought it was going to be more ocmplicated then that - considering CAP gave me horrible guidance & my Wg webpage is outdated on the proceedure. Got it though, off & running.

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Hey, there's an AFOATS Instructor Course on here, can I sign up for that? CAP instructor program too, I didn't think that was ready yet... hey this is cool. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SarDragon on January 20, 2007, 03:16:44 AM If you can, it would be a great investment of your time. If it's anything like the USN school I attended, you'll learn a lot, but it isn't easy. My electronics schools were all easier than the instructor school. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 20, 2007, 12:45:55 PM I did the CAP Instructon Program. Unless it's been significantly revised, it was almost a waste of time. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SarDragon on January 20, 2007, 07:13:52 PM

Quote from: arajca on January 20, 2007, 12:45:55 PM I did the CAP Instructon Program. Unless it's been significantly revised, it was almost a waste of time.

What I'm thinking about is anything that approximates the old Academic Instructor Circuit Rider Course that was offered in the 70s. It was a two day intense condensation of the Academic Instructor Course given at Maxwell. Look at AFMAN 36-2236 (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/36/afman362236/afman36-2236.pdf). This is the instructor bible, and has most of the info instructors need to teach. It encompasses both parts of the gig - classroom instructing, and curriculum development. They are intermingled a bit, since there is an overlap in necessary knowledge for each job. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: CaptLord on January 20, 2007, 07:45:28 PM Are the SOS questions the verbatim end of chapter review questions like the AFIADL 13 (ECI 13) ? p.s. Don't tell anyone that the AFIADL 13 test questions are the end of chapter review questions-that would be unfair to the rest of you who bought dozens of multi-colored highlighters! Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 20, 2007, 07:55:14 PM No. At least they didn't appear that way. They do cover the same material. Most of the Samples of Behavior are written answer - some can be lengthy. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: O-Rex on January 21, 2007, 10:11:58 PM Academic standards from ECI-13 to SOS are worlds apart. I took SOS on CD three years ago, and thought it was kind of fun. There were slides of instructors as they lectured on audio, when it came time to answer questions, If you got it right, the next slide was smile and "good job!" Get it wrong, and the next slide featured the same instructor with a raised eyebrow, "You might want to think about your answer

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and try again." Case Studies were pretty interesting, and the introduction to Air Power is something you'll never get in CAP. Exams were not easy: they focused more on "synthesis of concepts" (the essence of college-level work) rather than just regurgitating the material. There is also a section on Personnel Administration/Enlisted Personnel Management and Evaluation that are very USAF-specific-it was hard for me to dive enthusiastically into that one. The optional role-playing video-game at the end was fun. ACSC was much "drier," and didn't include the "Rah-Rah, welcome to the Officer Corps" motivational theme that SOS had. Exams are also a tad bit more challenging-it's supposed to be graduate-level work. The presentations were pretty interesting, particularly the case-study of the Lt Col Bud Holland's 1994 B-52 crash, as well as a thesis on why USAF's "Operation Linebacker" bombing campaign of 1972 would not have worked in previous years. You also get an overview of each of the other services' organization, mission and doctrine. The video game at the end of ACSC, i.e, "How to win Gulf War Air Campaign in five moves or less." was a fun and challenging exercise in strategy and allocation of resources (that game is not optional: when you win, you get a code you have to submit on the ACSC Website.) Speaking of which, the ACSC web-portal was handy: you get your grade faster than waiting for the post-cards from AFIADL, and there are forums, much like this one. The courses are no pushover, but what I really got out of it was exposure to the same knowledgebase that a USAF officer would have: It's certainly an educational opportunity you won't get anywhere else. Completion of ACSC is also a very nice line-item for your civilian resume. . . . I think that an SOS or ACSC-trained CAP Member adds value to their unit and the organization as a whole IF they adapt what they've learned to a CAP context (many will argue against, but the fact is that CAP and USAF "cultures" are very different.) There is also a better chance of a CAP member who is an SOS/ACSC-Grad finding a common frame of reference, or at least familiar with a smidgen of the lingo when interacting with USAF personnel. I would like to think that the prestige that comes with actually completing these courses gives members an edge as candidates for command (just as it would in the military) but alas, I have yet to see it. (Again, CAP culture is different...) Nonetheless, if you have the time, aptitude, and sticktoitiveness, I would highly recommend USAF PME courses. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 22, 2007, 12:10:50 AM ^ great insight, thank you. It would be nice to see it enhance one's chance of command & the like. Certainly the in-res SOS is a place where possiblle future Sq CCs are judged & their careers positively or egatively influenced based on that judgement. In CAP I was just helping my Gp CC today to get log-in. I doubt a lot of Wg CCs go thru the process. It seems like RSC/NSC & the networking with the up & coming seems to be better for the politics of it. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 22, 2007, 08:17:53 AM Speaking of ACSC, the AF is testing a new variant of the program - ACSC Masters DL course. Upon completion, the student receives a Masters degree in Military Management. The cost is the same, and I've already submitted a question to them as to whether CAP members would be able to take this variant, although I haven't heard back yet. Can anyone else see this as a HUGE benefit?

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Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 22, 2007, 12:32:09 PM YES! --- IF YOU NEED ME TO SIGN A PETITION OR ANYTHING -lol- IM THERE Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 22, 2007, 01:08:05 PM The test course starts this summer. I don't expect an answer until then. I'm planning on taking it when I get Major (a couple years away at least). Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DeputyDog on January 22, 2007, 03:10:34 PM

Quote from: arajca on January 22, 2007, 08:17:53 AM Speaking of ACSC, the AF is testing a new variant of the program - ACSC Masters DL course. Upon completion, the student receives a Masters degree in Military Management. The cost is the same, and I've already submitted a question to them as to whether CAP members would be able to take this variant, although I haven't heard back yet. Can anyone else see this as a HUGE benefit?

I do. I think I will wait to attempt (again) the ACSC until we get an answer on that. I already have my Level V, so I can wait. ;D The SOS course was tough for me in itself (I took and passed it before I had an Associate's). When I took the ACSC and failed, I was in my first year of graduate school. Talk about an overload.... Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 22, 2007, 03:26:48 PM

Quote from: arajca on January 22, 2007, 01:08:05 PM The test course starts this summer. I don't expect an answer until then. I'm planning on taking it when I get Major (a couple years away at least).

Well I was planning on taking it this summer or maybe late spring. Not going to have time for those things for a while after that. AU awarding a masters degree huh? That'd be great. I understood the existing ACSC was free to us. Would there be a cost to this (how much), and entrance requirements? I can just see the CAP Major w/ just high school trying to tak ethis & then trying to get a job on that basis. Really cool though. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on January 22, 2007, 03:44:54 PM For more information on the ACSC Masters DL program, here is the ACSC Distance Learning Masters Degree Information page. (http://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp) Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 22, 2007, 06:49:48 PM Hmm question: for any RLNCOs if you take this through CAP or any of the other PME for that matter, does it count for anything at your AD/NG/Res unit? Id love to take that Masters course... that would end [some of] the debate about our professionalism and /or education requirment shortfalls Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now?

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Post by: O-Rex on January 22, 2007, 08:12:48 PM A word on the ACSC Master's course: It sounds very much like the Naval War College's "Fleet Seminar Program." for O-3's and O-4's: You attend classes just like any college night-school program. It's not available everywhere (about half a dozen locations, major hubs like Norfolk, Diego, P'cola, etc. Nor is it open to everyone. I imagine the this new ACSC program will be similarly structured and ALOT more difficult that the CD-ROM version, with heavy writing requirement. Remember that PME's are not a "gimmee" for Officers: you usually have to be selected. Seats may be limited, and candidates may have to compete for them: Don't be surprised or offended if CAP members don't get invited right away. . . Even with the current version, I know of more CAP members who drop the course than complete it. Earning a Masters Degree through ACSC will not be a walk in the park.... Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 23, 2007, 04:59:55 AM Interesting. The master program on that link isn't ACSC. It says Majors will have the choice of the traditional ACSC-DL course & need an outside masters degree for career advancement, or they can cover both with this combination of AF & Joint-Def courses. 2year program, 34hrs. Sounds good, I hope they do open it to CAP members eventualy, but it sounds like that's not something they're going to think about unless someone asks them to.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 22, 2007, 06:49:48 PM Hmm question: for any RLNCOs if you take this through CAP or any of the other PME for that matter, does it count for anything at your AD/NG/Res unit?

LNCOs are not able to take officer PME thru CAP as they are not CAP officers in the correct grades. Now, CAP members who are also NCOs (AD, gruard, res) are able to take the courses just like any other CAP officer. I couldn't tell you if it helps them or not, but I'm sure it looks cool on the wall. A lot of cadets that go AF officer are able to stay involved with CAP & promote at our faster rate, which allows them to take the officer PME faster than they would normally be allowed to in the AF. That does seem to enhance things a touch, every advantage you can get it helpful. They'll still be sent to at least the in-res SOS at some point, and probably AWC toward the back end, but those are both good things. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Fifinella on January 23, 2007, 02:45:15 PM AF PME looks good on the resume for civil service too. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: MajorSER on January 24, 2007, 12:07:45 AM

Quote from: arajca on January 22, 2007, 03:44:54 PM For more information on the ACSC Masters DL program, here is the ACSC Distance Learning Masters Degree Information page. (http://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp)

Arajca I just signed up for ACSC but I would be very interested in hearing their answer about CAP members taking the Master's Course. I will be looking for your post in April.

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Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 24, 2007, 04:49:36 AM If I take SOS as a CAP Officer, and ROTC finally waives my medical and let me commission I'm going to have to take the course again?! grrr -teeth grinding ensuesTitle: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: AlphaSigOU on January 24, 2007, 06:50:50 AM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 24, 2007, 04:49:36 AM If I take SOS as a CAP Officer, and ROTC finally waives my medical and let me commission I'm going to have to take the course again?! grrr -teeth grinding ensues-

You'll get the credit for taking it via correspondence, but they'll probably recommend you take it in-residence if offered. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 24, 2007, 10:12:41 AM ^ indeed they will. You'll have the box checked already which makes your life easier, and because you've had it done for a while it makes you look like you are on the ball and/or over-quald for where they have you. That produces good opportunities, which in turn are good for your career. Eventually though you will have to take the in-res. The content is a bit different & that's the time when they watch you like a hawk to see who's going to get groomed for command & who's going to manage the kitchen in Korea... well it's a big step in that process anyway. It's good to get ACSC & AWC done via CAP later in your career. If you were say a pilot & didn't want to come out of the cockpit & lose your currency to attend a 9-12mo course, & here you already have it checked off. Those are great courses to go to in-res as well though. You get to be involved in some strategic doctorine type discussions that can shape policy. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 24, 2007, 03:52:41 PM Thats always good, but sadly I dont have 20/20 vision - even with specs- though I am picking up some credits towards a PPL. :) THat said, Big Brother Blue has stated that if/ when I commission Im going to Minot to a nice big hole in the ground where I get to stare at a panel and contemplate the meaning of life. ;D Its the one way I know to be avoid being an "unrated weenie" while being forced to avoid an airframe. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 25, 2007, 10:32:14 PM Ok, my journey off topic aside. What are the chances of a CAP member ever being allowed to attend an IN RESIDENCE Course? Be it SOS ACSC etc... I was told that even the AFIADL courses require some base visits to AU. Is this accurate? And if so what for/ how long? Oh..and would the AF pay for the visit or would I? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: shorning on January 25, 2007, 10:49:15 PM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 25, 2007, 10:32:14 PM Oh..and would the AF pay for the visit or would I?

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The Air Force isn't going to pay. There is no surplus of money for something like this. They have a hard enough time getting all the funding they need for the warfighters. Beyond that, there isn't a mechanism that would allow you to pay for the training. If there were, it would cost you thousands of dollars for some of the courses. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: O-Rex on January 25, 2007, 11:01:35 PM In-residence PME courses for CAP members? The answer is "no." Slots to resident intermediate (ACSC) and advanced (AWC) courses courses are limited and very competitive within USAF. Remember that SOS is several weeks in length, ACSC and AWC are about a year long. Also, folks don't realize is that Military schools aren't free: when a servicemember attends a school, their organization gets a bill (these things go on way behind the scenes.) That's why there are extended service committments associated with mil schooling: return on investment. That's also why unit commanders get real ticked-off when their servicemembers flunk courses-it's not just a matter of pride: the unit still gets billed. DL courses are relatively cheap, so we get to participate pro bono. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 02:42:17 AM Understood gentlemen. However what of hearing that visits to AU are required - even for DL courses. ? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: shorning on January 26, 2007, 02:46:49 AM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 02:42:17 AM Understood gentlemen. However what of hearing that visits to AU are required - even for DL courses. ?

I say again:

Quote from: shorning on January 25, 2007, 10:49:15 PM The Air Force isn't going to pay.

Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 03:52:30 AM Ok, I understand that sir. But whether I pay or not my current question is this: Are CAP students of the SOS, ACSC or AWC DL courses advised/required to visit Maxwell during the course? Ex: to participate in a table top or turn in assignments, graduation, etc. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: shorning on January 26, 2007, 04:50:34 AM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 I was told that even the AFIADL courses require some base visits to AU. Is this accurate? And if so what for/ how long? Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 03:52:30 AM Are CAP students of the SOS, ACSC or AWC DL courses advised/required to visit Maxwell during the course? Ex: to participate in a table top or turn in assignments, graduation, etc.

CAP members are voluntarily taking AFIADL courses; there will not be a requirement for

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you to travel to Maxwell for any portion of the class. Could you voluntarily? Doubtful. Why? Because those courses do not have a mechanism for you to participate. For example, info from AWC says, "Civil Air Patrol officers in the grades of lieutenant colonel selectee and above are eligible for enrollment in the Correspondence Program only." That means you can't participate in the in-residence classes. By extrapolation you could apply that to the other courses. So there would be no requirement to visit Maxwell during the course. To me, it sounds like you're looking for a reason to go "play Air Force". Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 26, 2007, 08:22:31 AM Hey I think it'd be a good thing to have a few top notch CAP officers in on the strategic doctorine defining resaerch & discussions that happen at AWC, but there's other ways to do that, and no way in hell anyone's taking a slot away from AF personnel to put you there. If you're lucky they might let you participate on base w/ other people enrolled in the DL course, but I doubt it, again no mechanism. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 29, 2007, 05:58:18 PM Just to update. I'm all of halfway thru the first section (profession of arms) and holy crap that's a good course. I'm sure I could highlight it in power point to get teh points across w/o the serious academic (mental) investment this is taking, but I'm quite impressed with the content so far. A lot of complaints people have aboutlack of leadership in CAP, be it from the top or at any other level, are directly addressed in a straight forward manner. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Robert Hartigan on January 29, 2007, 10:32:30 PM I am glad someone else sees the benefits of the course. I am also preparing for the Professions of Arms test. It is ordered and should arrive at the TCF shortly. I believe the test is more than power point deep and others should be cautioned that even though the material is good stuff it is not without work. You get two chances to take the tests. Fail any one of them twice and you are done. It seems that the material is presented in a clear concise manner to stimulate conceptual understanding of the authors presented. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on January 30, 2007, 08:11:55 AM It is pretty clear. the audio is horrible, & the slides a little small, but otherwise pretty good. It does skip around a bit in places though rather than following the sort of strict outline format you'd expect in a college lecture, enough so that you do feel spoon fed at all. I don't want to put anyone off, but I do think it'd be much more difficult w/o some college experience. Not just in the presentation & intellectual requiremenets, but the depth of the material as well. The readings are superb. I just read officership foundations last night; in all seriousness, wish all corporate officers would review it; gonna use it as the base for a pre-C/CC sort of course we're putting together here. Need to order the tests... how do I do that? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: O-Rex on January 31, 2007, 11:03:12 PM

Quote from: DNall on January 30, 2007, 08:11:55 AM I don't want to put anyone off, but I do think it'd be much more difficult w/o some college experience. Not just in the presentation & intellectual requirements, but the depth of the material as well.

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Good point: remember that SOS is geared to a USAF 1st Lt./Capt who should already have an undergraduate degree (also, ACE recommends upper level college credits for SOS) ACSC ratchets it up a-notch: be prepared. I'm told that the new DL AWC is essay/term-paper intensive. ??? Tests-It's been a while: I think for SOS, exam requests were included with the material. I do know that for ACSC, when you get your grade on your completed test, they automatically send you the next one. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on February 01, 2007, 12:28:56 AM They don't send any material now. It's all an online course w/ video modules & PDFs for the readings. The provide PDFs if you want to print the text version, but I got no interest in that other than to save the content for outside use - also some real nice course creation tools in the system so I can rip conent to slides to make a cadet class. Still need to explore that more, but looks very cool for my purposes. I did figure out though that the TCO has to email a specific address & explain why I can't take it at an on-base computer testing facility, then they'll mail the first one & others come one at a time as I pass them. The proceedure for all this was not exactly user friendly, but they are in transition & CAP dpesn't have the update info anywhere that I've found. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: caphistorian on February 01, 2007, 03:34:59 PM I ahve just requested my test for the SOS course. I am doing the paper exam through one of the local squadrons. Requesting the paper one was very easy with a short explination as to why I could travel 1 1/2 hours to take each test. Should come in the next few weeks. I will keep folks informed. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DrJbdm on February 04, 2007, 11:44:48 AM How much does AFIADL enforce the rule of being a Captain to get into SOS? is AFIADL very picky about that sort of thing with CAP? any chance I could "sneak" in as a 1st Lt??? ;D Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on February 04, 2007, 11:53:51 AM Why would you want to jepardize our ability to take AFIADL courses by breaking the rules? AF officers need to be Capt's (Capt selects don't qualify) before they can take SOS either in residence or by correspondence. CAP follows the same rules. AFIADL may just refuse your enrollment or it may decide to block all CAP enrollments because of you. I don't know exactly how they will react, so I wouldn't push the issue. Now, for ACSC, the AF allows Maj selects to take it and actually includes CAP Maj selects in their requirements. Question comes up, what is a CAP Maj select? A Capt with Level III completed? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: mikeylikey on February 04, 2007, 01:23:10 PM

Quote from: DrJbdm on February 04, 2007, 11:44:48 AM

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How much does AFIADL enforce the rule of being a Captain to get into SOS? is AFIADL very picky about that sort of thing with CAP? any chance I could "sneak" in as a 1st Lt??? ;D

So you would LIE and say you are a Captain when registering? Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DrJbdm on February 04, 2007, 02:27:49 PM

Quote So you would LIE and say you are a Captain when registering?

Who said anything about lying?? My question was can 1st Lt's get into SOS or does AFIADL really restrict enrollments to Capt? I have heard of CAP Capt's taking ACSC and so I was wondering about Lt's taking SOS. No where in there did I say I would LIE! Please do not assume I am the type who would nor should you read too much into the question. I also wouldn't attempt to take SOS without knowing if others have gotten into the program as Lt's. I'm not going to be the one who causes everyone else to lose a great privilege. Thats why I ask the questions first. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: AlphaSigOU on February 04, 2007, 02:51:31 PM

Quote from: arajca on February 04, 2007, 11:53:51 AM Why would you want to jepardize our ability to take AFIADL courses by breaking the rules? AF officers need to be Capt's (Capt selects don't qualify) before they can take SOS either in residence or by correspondence. CAP follows the same rules. AFIADL may just refuse your enrollment or it may decide to block all CAP enrollments because of you. I don't know exactly how they will react, so I wouldn't push the issue. Now, for ACSC, the AF allows Maj selects to take it and actually includes CAP Maj selects in their requirements. Question comes up, what is a CAP Maj select? A Capt with Level III completed?

Way I interpret it, according to CAPR 50-17 and 35-5 you're fully qualified for promotion to Major when you complete Level III requirements. You still have to do your 3 years time-in-grade as Captain. (I've already gotten my Level III out of the way and still hafta wait until July for Captain. And then another 3 years TIG for Major.) If I were me I would wait until I have a year left TIG as a Captain and completed SOS before enrolling in ACSC. Soon as my railroad tracks become official in eServices is when I'll enroll in SOS. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: Hoodsie on February 09, 2007, 03:04:24 PM Just finished taking going over the on-line course. I almost hate to admit this but I signed up for it on 9/29/05. This gives me until 3/29/07 to complete the course. I found it quite interesting even if it had no relevance to CAP. I knew that going in and just thought it would be good to take a "real" Air Force course. I walked away from it several times due to work constraints. I also just tried the CAP Stone exercise yesterday for the first time. I failed miserably! Couldn't make it past the landmines. I'm open to any advice on anyone who has made it past. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on February 09, 2007, 03:34:06 PM :)

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Quote from: Hoodsie on February 09, 2007, 03:04:24 PM Just finished taking going over the on-line course. I almost hate to admit this but I signed up for it on 9/29/05. This gives me until 3/29/07 to complete the course. I found it quite interesting even if it had no relevance to CAP. I knew that going in and just thought it would be good to take a "real" Air Force course. I walked away from it several times due to work constraints. I also just tried the CAP Stone exercise yesterday for the first time. I failed miserably! Couldn't make it past the landmines. I'm open to any advice on anyone who has made it past. :)

Maybe it gets worse as you go along, I'm just in the profession of arms section waiting for tests to be shipped, but I find it highly applicable to CAP. I mean broad based officership lessons, talking about the obligations of an officer to their service, the warrior attitude was a big thing... you know the part where they are talking about how 4% of AF officers are pilots, 60% are in a non-combat related job, but we have to have all those people thinking like front line fighters or the mission doesn't come off... I find that EXACTLY applicable to CAP. It's easy for us to sit back here & think of ourselves as civilians & volunteers & a corporation, but we know our dedicated efficient service saves money that's moved to warfighters, and here we are at war. Yeah, I think that lesson speaks directly to CAP. A couple things here & there apply more to them than to us, but there's a valuable CAP take to be had on everything in the course & if you sat thru it thinking you'd memorize for the tests but none of it had anything to do with your CAP service, than I'm sorry for you. Have you ordered the tests by the way? Each one takes 2-3 weeks shipping & they only come one at a time. The course is supposed to be done in one year, and that's allowing time for shipping, they're currently at 18months because people are also deployed. If you hadn't ordered tests yet, you need to withdraw & re-enroll, then read the introductory warning about procrastination. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: arajca on February 09, 2007, 04:51:36 PM You only need to order the first one. They send the others as you pass each test. When you pass the 28A test, they'll send out the 28B test. When you pass the 28B test, they'll send the 28C test, etc. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on February 09, 2007, 05:03:13 PM yeah & allow 2-3 weeks shipping between each one, not couting time to return the test after you take it. So basically, 5-6 of those 18 months are there for shipping. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: caphistorian on February 10, 2007, 05:34:40 AM Word of caution.........make sure you have the correct shred code for your testing area. The one I found on the website was old. I had to call the wing administrator to get the updated one. The test is at an Air Base and is going to have to be forwarded. I am looking forward to getting it done. The only thing I have left to finish level four. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on February 10, 2007, 05:50:55 AM Those things are based on zip codes, so unless your Wg HQ has moved in the last few years it should be right, but of course check it. Title: Re: Anyone else taking SOS right now? Post by: DNall on February 12, 2007, 12:43:41 AM

Quote from: DNall I find it highly applicable to CAP.

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Section 9-11 : Joint operations... that's ICS right there.

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